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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
446
   |
Posted - 2016.03.03 18:49:48 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote: Market: markets currently have two taxes, transaction's tax, applied for sold items, and broker's fee for non immediate orders, which are set at 1.5% and 1% respectively. To create an environment more competitive for Citadels, we plan on increasing the transaction tax to 2.5% and the broker's fee to 5-6%. Players trading in citadels will still receive the transaction tax, but the broker's fee will be at the complete discretion of the owner. To avoid confusion for the owner, the broker relations skill will not affect player set broker's fee in Citadels.
This makes little sense. Surely it should be the broker fee that is constant (with citadels paying a lower rate) and then the transaction tax can be controlled and collected by the owner.
After all the brokers are entities in their own right and so it makes no sense that another player can collect the broker fee; the transaction tax on the other hand is simply an arbitrary tax and so it makes sense that this should go to the owner.
You might consider this a small point but little details like this matter if you want a game which is believable.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
447
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 19:14:39 -
[2] - Quote
How about this:
Brokers fee = modified by the security status of the system
The top brokers which charge the highest fees operate in the most developed secure locations (Jita) wheras low end brokers (who charge the least) have to start in some back end system at the edge of nowhere.
This can then be further modified by the broker relations skill (your skill at negotiating with brokers)
Transaction tax = modified by the owner of the station
This could be set by the owner of the citadel as an arbitrary tax at any rate they wish.
In the case of NPC stations it could be based upon your Accounting skill and faction/corporation standing with the owner of the station.
This would make a lot more sense.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
448
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 23:21:14 -
[3] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Charles Surge wrote:5M to JC is too high.
It is an incentive not to JC, and thus +1 incentive not to play the game. Agreed. This is a tax on PvP whereas the other fees are a tax on profitable activities. Profit taxes are good, PvP tax is bad. I think that the ability to stack jump clones in the same structure (vs just one now) is adequate incentive. The current system is a real pain.
It is only 5 million ISK to teleport across the entire map; stop complaining scrubs.
I am in favour of creating a more interesting playing field when it comes to market hubs, but you are doing it wrong by simply offering massive bonuses to anyone using a citadel.
To make things interesting it should be based upon security status of the system also. As I and a couple of others mentioned; a lower security status should also the lower the broker fee.
This would offer some counterbalance and incentive to setting up hubs in low sec and below and make trading a lot more interesting.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
448
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 23:40:08 -
[4] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Moac Tor wrote:It is only 5 million ISK to teleport across the entire map; stop complaining scrubs. Per character, per jump. Moving around is a key part of the game now due to how far and between content is. The faster and easier it is to get to content, the better experiences players have, and the more the wheels of the economy are greased, which in turn is more content for people. It will add up a lot faster than you think, and is just another straw on an increasingly burdened back. Everyone of these proposed changes is harmful to players and small entities.
So it is not good because it doesn't allow players instant gratification and means their choices have consequences... I guess I can't blame you as it seems to be the path eve has been following lately.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
448
|
Posted - 2016.03.03 23:59:03 -
[5] - Quote
Niko Zino wrote:Moac Tor wrote:So it is not good because it doesn't allow players instant gratification and means their choices have consequences... I guess I can't blame you as it seems to be the path eve has been following lately. Heaven knows Vic and I aren't always on the same side of every issue, but seriously, you should read what he writes before typing.
Vic Jefferson wrote:The faster and easier it is to get to content, the better experiences players have, and the more the wheels of the economy are greased, which in turn is more content for people.
Can you explain which part of his post that you believe I misread?
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
453
|
Posted - 2016.03.04 17:25:53 -
[6] - Quote
Charles Burger wrote:What's the actual point of the 5 mil jump fee for NPC stations?
This "covering costs" thing is obviously ridiculous since NPCs don't have costs or wallets or ISK... or am I missing something here?
It will be detrimental to PvP. In RvB we primarily stay in high sec but often have low or null sec roams. Everyone jumps into their clean clone, naturally, not wanting to risk their implants. With a 5 mil fee, and another 5 mil to jump back into their implanted clone, many people will simply not bother. I'm sure other groups who occasionally go to low or null for roams will be similarly affected.
I am failing to see the point whatsoever. It seems like all con and no pro. What's the pro's of this change, from any angle? Who is it meant to help?
Although this would defeat the purpose of the proposal in the first place.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
|
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
453
|
Posted - 2016.03.06 01:57:36 -
[7] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
A 6% increase is not going to "destroy the station trading profession" the market will recover and yes it will push people to use citadels once people see they are not as vulnerable add they ate speculating
And this shows a lack of understanding of the problem. Station trading is not like ratting. A 6% tax is not 6% of your profit like ratting. It's often your entire profit, if it more than the margins some items trade at (relative to their opportunity cost of component parts). And we all know who will control the major trade hubs, the major null alliances have so much material built up they are impossible to challenge on the combat field long term (Sure you might win a fight or two, but if they care they'll just bury you), the only way big null groups get taken out is via the meta game, and when they control the development of the metagame via their vocal lobby & are a concentration of the oldest players in the game (as shown by CCP Fanfest graphs) it's obvious the surviving groups aren't going to be knocked off by any 'new group'. (So the whole, 'just form your own group to challenge them argument is a joke, has been for years, and everyone knows it). So the problem is that this much of a big stick being applied to NPC taxes provides a way for those groups to extend the areas of space they control into high sec, which actually creates more metagame stagnation in EVE. It may create a burst of fighting in space, but it further encourages the blue doughnut to form (Don't destroy our markets, we won't destroy yours) and the crushing of any remotely emergent group that could change the political landscape, rather than a group that pays homage & tribute to their 'overlords' to survive. Note, this is not saying those groups have not worked to get there, but game mechanics should not further encourage a single group, or a few groups holding dominion over everything (Directly or via proxy alliance), and this game mechanic does do that. First i know how the market works is how I make the majority of my isk. And 6% will not kill it in fact in some areas like industry it will actually improve profit margins for the more dedicated manufactures. Second the large groups may control the highest traffic areas but they will not control every market. They ate not going to shown the time and the energy just going around structure grinding for little to no gain
Exactly; people are over-reacting. Taking skills and standings into account your still looking at only a 2% broker fee and 1.25% tax, so overall its rising from around 1% to 2.25%. The higher broker fee will make trading for quick profits less efficient as you will be paying two lots of broker fees which up until now has been negligible. Despite this there will be only a minor impact for most people, the only players hurt will be prolific traders who will now have to be a bit more careful with their investments.
I think that people still will be reluctant to use citadels even if the broker fee is set to nothing purely due to the risk factor and uncertainty.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
456
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 20:53:50 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:As mentioned there, we're open to 3 reprocessing bands.
Low sec is as difficult as doing industry in null sec, if not more so, and so I don't see any reason for 3 bands.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
456
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 21:03:04 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:So brokers' fee formula becomes: 5% brokers fee - ([Broker Relation skill level]0.2 + [Faction Standing level]0.03 + [Corp Standing level]*0.02)
This is too steep. Broker relations giving only a 20% reduction in fees and standings 10%, that is practically nothing. If you read back in this thread I have been supportive of the additional fees for marketing based under the current system of applying skills and standings. You've gone too far with this nerf though. I'd double the whole standing/skill part of the forumula as below:
So 5% brokers fee - ([Broker Relation skill level] * 0.4 + [Faction Standing level] * 0.06 + [Corp Standing level] * 0.04)
This still gives a total tax of ( 3% (broker fee) + 1.25% (transaction tax) = 4.25% (total) ) which is more than high enough.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
|
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
456
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 22:21:33 -
[10] - Quote
Just to put this in perspective of how big this change is to station trading:
Currently the lowest tax with max skill and standing is 0.9375%.
With what Ytterbium is proposing your looking at a minimum of 4.75%
That is a 400% or 5x+ increase.
If I was cynical I'd say that Ytterbium slipped in the modification to how standing/skill affects the broker fee hoping that it goes relatively noticed. If they were planning a change this big surely it should have been in the OP and not just something hashed up half way through the thread.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
|
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
456
|
Posted - 2016.03.09 22:55:11 -
[11] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Looking at all of these comments it seems the tax is going to have the desired effect.
For sure. With a tax this high you can say goodbye to Jita 4-4. NPC trading just won't be competitive with the NPC taking an almost 5% cut of every trade order. Once a solid alliance gets a hub setup they can trade there with taxes as low as 1.25%.
I think citadels should have an advantage but I think this is too much. NPC stations shouldn't become completely unviable.
(also if said alliance can set taxes based upon specific groups then they can effectively lock down an entire regional market - this is hypothetical at the moment although would be the logical next step)
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
|
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Stain Confederation
460
|
Posted - 2016.03.15 00:35:09 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:With that in mind, base reprocessing yield of the reprocessing service: 50% (also includes compression free of charge)
All of the rigs below give the same bonuses: Tech I rigs will give 52% if the structure is in high-sec, 55% otherwise. Tech II rigs below will give 55% if the structure is in high-sec, 60% otherwise.
Medium rigs (only apply to Astrahus):
Tech I and II rigs that applies for high-sec ores: Veldspar, Scordite, Pyroxeres, Omber, Kernite and all variants.
Tech I and II rigs that applies for all other ores: Arkonor, Bistot, Crokite, Dark Ochre, Gneiss, Mercoxit, Spodumain, Hedbergite, Hemorphite, Jaspet and all variants.
Tech I and II rigs that applies for: Clear Icicle, Enriched Clear Icicle, White Glaze, Pristine White Glaze, Dark Glitter and Gelidus
Tech I and II rigs that applies for: Blue Ice, Thick Blue Ice, Glacial Mass, Smooth Glacial Mass, Glare Crust, Krystallos.
Large rigs (only apply to Fortizar):
Tech I and II rigs that applies for all ores.
Tech I and II rigs that applies for all ices.
X-Large rig (only applies for Keepstar):
Tech I and II rigs that applies for all ore and ices.
And that should cover everything. Please keep in mind this is still WIP and subject to change based on constructive feedback.
[/list]
I'm not keen on the extreme rise in the broker fee and transaction tax, although this re-processing rig change is very much welcomed and a sensible move.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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